tour 2019
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daniel1975
- Forum-lid HC
- Berichten: 40088
- Lid geworden op: 11 nov 2004 14:14
daniel1975
27 okt 2018 06:13
Als de Giro straks 70km tt blijkt te hebben en iets minder over-de-top finishes dan we gewend zijn, wat zou TD dan doen? Winstkans vs media aandacht.....
Less is bore
rob74
27 okt 2018 07:31
Dat lijkt ,e sterk. Tijdrijden is niet zo populair meer onder organisatoren van grote rondes. IK denk niet dat het aantal tijdrit kilometers in de Giro drastisch veel hoger zal liggen dan in de tour. En Tom wil die tour heel graag een keer winnen en zijn ploeg wil dat ook. De druk is dus hoog.
En zoals Dumoulin aangeeft is het geen ideaal parkoers voor hem. Niet ideaal is toch echt totaal wat anders dan zeggen dat een parkoers volledig ongeschikt is om te kunnen winnen. Dus ik denk wel dat hij in Brussel aan de start staat en de giro laat schieten, of hoogstens als voorbereiding fietst
En zoals Dumoulin aangeeft is het geen ideaal parkoers voor hem. Niet ideaal is toch echt totaal wat anders dan zeggen dat een parkoers volledig ongeschikt is om te kunnen winnen. Dus ik denk wel dat hij in Brussel aan de start staat en de giro laat schieten, of hoogstens als voorbereiding fietst
Live fast; die young. mijn blog
rob74
27 okt 2018 07:32
Nu nog team Sky verbieden en ze gaan de goede kant opfietsernl schreef: ↑26 okt 2018 21:06 Ze willen ook de vermogensmeters verbieden.
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/aso-w ... verbieden/
Live fast; die young. mijn blog
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daniel1975
- Forum-lid HC
- Berichten: 40088
- Lid geworden op: 11 nov 2004 14:14
daniel1975
27 okt 2018 07:39
Budget plafond zou al een goede eerste stap zijn. Dan kan niet 1 ploeg alle toppers kopen. Al laat movistar pijnlijk goed zien dat goede fietsers geen goede ploeg maakt.
Less is bore
En dan graag nog de finish op de Iseran (en de Galibier), in plaats van (ver) erna, al zou dat vooral voor Dumoulin een ramp zijn. Ik heb toch sterk de indruk dat hij wat moeite heeft met al te hoge bergen. Maar met een beetje geluk heeft meneer Thomas dat ook.
[/quote]
je vergeet dat dumoulin nog vrij jong is en dus nog een paar jaar sterker en regelmatiger zal (of aan het worden is. Ik vraag me af wat het impact op Froome is van de gebeurtenissen van dit jaar op zijn prestaties, en die wordt ook er niet echt jonger op. Bij sky moet je van niks verschieten maar gaat Thomas een tweede keer zo sterk kunnen presteren?En ik denk dat de Iseran meer geschikt is voor een type Dumoulin dan voor een echte klimmer en dit ondanks de hoogte.
Opdracht is vrij simpel: volg sky en probeer zoveel mogelijk tijd te nemen in de tijdrit. Waar ik wel wat voor vrees is dat dumoulin zijn tijdritcapaciteiten wat aan het opofferen is ten voordele van zijn klimcapaciteiten.
[/quote]
je vergeet dat dumoulin nog vrij jong is en dus nog een paar jaar sterker en regelmatiger zal (of aan het worden is. Ik vraag me af wat het impact op Froome is van de gebeurtenissen van dit jaar op zijn prestaties, en die wordt ook er niet echt jonger op. Bij sky moet je van niks verschieten maar gaat Thomas een tweede keer zo sterk kunnen presteren?En ik denk dat de Iseran meer geschikt is voor een type Dumoulin dan voor een echte klimmer en dit ondanks de hoogte.
Opdracht is vrij simpel: volg sky en probeer zoveel mogelijk tijd te nemen in de tijdrit. Waar ik wel wat voor vrees is dat dumoulin zijn tijdritcapaciteiten wat aan het opofferen is ten voordele van zijn klimcapaciteiten.
Het is soms balanceren op een slappe koord maar ik heb toch graag het laatste woord. 
Helemaal mee eens. Dat geleuter door journalisten en publiek over parcours en kleine veranderingen m.b.t. bonificaties e.d. en speculeren over de voor- en nadelen voor welke renners is precies de reden waarom de organisatie dat opvoert. Namelijk heel handig , terecht, extra publiciteit genereren voor de evenementsponsoren.
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daniel1975
- Forum-lid HC
- Berichten: 40088
- Lid geworden op: 11 nov 2004 14:14
daniel1975
27 okt 2018 16:02
Ik vind boni’s per definitie fout.
Verkleint de kans voor dag-vluchters en geeft een onredelijke voorsprong in tijd voor klimmers die toevallig net iets beter sprinten.
Verkleint de kans voor dag-vluchters en geeft een onredelijke voorsprong in tijd voor klimmers die toevallig net iets beter sprinten.
Less is bore
chrissiewizzie schreef: ↑27 okt 2018 09:39 De etappe naar de Planche is een soort van Petit Ballon met Markstein, Grand Ballon, Hundsruck, Ballon d’Alsace en Croix. Dan ga ik juni volgend jaar extra genieten tijdens de 3B!
Lijkt inderdaad wel op het laatste stuk van L3B met ook nog de Servance en Col de Chevreres er tussen gezet. Zal wel flink wat hoogtemeters opleveren.
Hij is jonger dan Thomas, Froome en opa Valverde ja, maar niet (wezenlijk) jonger dan Quintana, Pinot, Bardet, Roglic, Landa en Zakarin. En hij is alweer een stuk ouder dan het gehele podium van de Vuelta, alsmede de andere Yates en ene Bernal. Dus of de tijd eenduidig in zijn voordeel speelt waag ik te betwijfelen. Zelf hoop ik dat Enric Mas volgend jaar ook eens een van de andere grote rondes gaat proberen.fiedoo schreef: ↑27 okt 2018 08:06je vergeet dat dumoulin nog vrij jong is en dus nog een paar jaar sterker en regelmatiger zal (of aan het worden is.tijanus schreef: En dan graag nog de finish op de Iseran (en de Galibier), in plaats van (ver) erna, al zou dat vooral voor Dumoulin een ramp zijn. Ik heb toch sterk de indruk dat hij wat moeite heeft met al te hoge bergen. Maar met een beetje geluk heeft meneer Thomas dat ook.
Vanaf Bourg St. Maurice mogelijk wel, maar ze komen vanaf Bonneval sur Arc. En als Dumoulin op bijvoorbeeld 2200 meter (eerste stuk 11%) niet meer genoeg zuurstof binnen krijgt om al zijn tijdrijdersspiermassa aan de gang te houden... is het nog heel ver naar de top.
Nu je het zo stelt besef ik me pas dat we eigenlijk al een klein decennium de halve Tour naar een klein peloton Cadel Evansen zitten te kijken. Nou ja, het heeft bij Cadel één keer goed uitgepakt.
Zorro
30 okt 2018 21:13
Team Sky zelfmoord
Geraint Thomas: ‘Ideally, Froome would ride for me but that’s not possible’
The Tour de France winner on overcoming frustration with Team Sky, meeting Lionel Messi and why he cannot wait for next year.
Tue 30 Oct 2018 12.09 GMTLast modified on Tue 30 Oct 2018 19.42 GMT
Geraint Thomas has already told me about the night he and Lionel Messi met in an underground car park and how it feels to have won the Tour de France. He has considered public suspicion of Team Sky and explained his long battle to be accepted as their leading rider in this year’s race ahead of Chris Froome. Thomas pauses briefly now and, stepping away from the whirlwind of the last four months, looks ahead.
“I’d love to win it again,” he says. “Each year’s different but I still feel I’m improving even though I’m 32. I still have the motivation and commitment where I think Brad Wiggins, once he’d won it [in 2012], didn’t have 100% motivation. I’ve still got the appetite. I enjoyed the whole race – not just the end.”
Tour de France 2019 plans show organisers still hope to curb Team Sky | William Fotheringham
Yet Thomas concedes that Sky angered him on numerous occasions. His new book captures the Tour’s intensity but it is especially interesting when he reveals his frustration as he believed Sky favoured Froome even when Thomas had established a significant lead. But Thomas is amiable and balanced. He points out that Froome has won six grand tours and they are friends. The last pages of Thomas’s book are given over to Froome, who stresses their long relationship as teammates and how “despite my own regrets … it was a pleasure watching G win”.
There was less harmony on other key days. Thomas recalls how, before the team time trial, he was told he would be left by the other riders if he endured a puncture or a crash. Only Froome, trailing Thomas by 52 seconds after two stages, would be protected. Thomas “sat there and stewed” before saying: “That’s a bit shit. Fucking hell, guys, could you really not wait for me?”
He nods. “I was frustrated because I thought I was also a protected rider. But it’s not a decision they took lightly. They would have thought about it and debated it. I said my bit, and they said: ‘No.’ So you have to accept it. The likelihood [of a puncture] is really slim but at the time I thought it’s a shit situation. Yeah, it dragged me down a bit, but you let it go.”
After stage nine, a brutal day on the cobbles to Roubaix, Thomas had moved up to second, more than a minute ahead of Froome, but he was reminded of his less exalted position within Sky. “It was really hot in the hotel but when they put the air-con units on for all eight riders the electricity tripped. So they said: ‘Only one person can have it – Froomey.’”
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Thomas wheeled an air-con unit back into his room. He “whacked it on” and “we were fortunate it didn’t trip out”. On two later occasions Froome told the team he planned to attack a stage even though there was a danger he and Thomas could lose time as a consequence. “I guess that’s a good example of not racing against each other because he told me openly he was going to do it. If he’d been made to ride for me, people could now say: ‘Froomey could have attacked that day. Maybe he could have won.’ But it shows I was stronger. It worked out well in the end.
Geraint Thomas (left) clinks champagne glasses with Chris Froome as he approaches the finish of this year’s Tour de France. Photograph: Marco Bertorello/AFP/Getty Images
“The biggest thing with Froomey was that it was never awkward. He would have been gutted because he wanted to win a fifth Tour and three grand tours on the trot. But when he congratulated me he seemed genuine, and since the Tour we’ve had a couple of nights out.”
From Wales to the Champs-Élysées: the selfless rise of Geraint Thomas | William Fotheringham
Froome is seriously competitive and he will be driven to win the Tour next year. How will he and Thomas reconcile their rival ambitions? “The team obviously know I can do it now. So I think we’ll be on a level playing field. I’m confident that, as long as we’re honest and open, we can both go for it. I’d happily help Froomey if he got through the first block of mountains and he’s strongest. I wouldn’t ride against him to try to win then.”
Froome will ride for Sky until 2020 while Thomas is under contract a year longer. It will be fascinating to watch the jostling for supremacy – but surely it presents a massive headache inside the team? “It adds another dimension. But I stayed because I feel I’m going to be the best I can be here. Going to another team is a gamble. I’ve only got another three big years left so I don’t want to risk it. Obviously, in an ideal world, Froomey would just be riding for me. But I know that’s not possible.”
Will he and Froome both take a concerted crack at the 2019 Tour? “I’m not 100% sure yet. I want to look at the route and go from there. But being the defending champ I won’t go at anything less than 100%. At the same time, the Giro [d’Italia] really excites me. It feels like unfinished business.”
Is it realistic for Thomas to be competitive in both the Giro and the Tour? “Before this year I would have said no. Froomey’s done it in previous years and I thought: ‘Wow, he’s special.’ But look at Tom Dumoulin [winning the Giro in 2017 and finishing second behind Froome this year and second in the Tour soon after]. Maybe it’s possible.”
In the peloton, I think everyone respects us. But the media and some fans don’t like the dominance
Thomas understandably does not criticise his boss Dave Brailsford, whose credibility was shredded by a parliamentary select committee concluding that Team Sky cynically abused the anti-doping system through therapeutic use exemption forms in 2012. The Welsh cyclist has said previously he believes TUEs [approval to use a prescibed prohibited substance for a medical condition – therapeutic use exemption] should be eradicated and he shakes his head when asked if he knew Froome had been found to have almost twice the allowed dose of salbutamol, his asthma medication, while winning the Vuelta a España in September 2017?
“I only heard when it came out in the papers in December. But I backed Froomey 100% because he was being tested every day in the leader’s jersey. It would be the most stupid thing to take too much. He wouldn’t do that. Obviously when you just read the headline, it looks bad. That’s why I felt really bad for him. But luckily they cleared his name.”
Thomas must have felt the antipathy towards Sky from some cycling crowds? “It’s not the same for the [Critérium du] Dauphiné [which Thomas won in June] or Paris–Nice. I don’t recall booing there. It’s only in the Tour. People were booing us but it got almost pantomime. If you go watch, you have to boo Sky. Obviously there’s lots of hatred, but 50% was pantomime. In the first week you’re mindful of it on easier days. Whereas in the mountains you are a lot more focused, and it’s background noise.”
Geraint Thomas: Tour de France support has outshone negativity – video
The way in which he surpassed Froome, as well as his emotional reaction when winning, touched some riders in the peloton. Daniele Bennati, the experienced Italian rider from Movistar who was part of Mario Cipollini’s lead-out train in a different era, drew alongside Thomas as they completed the processional ride into Paris. “It’s really good to see you win,” Bennati said. “It gives me goosebumps.”
Cardiff praises local boy Geraint Thomas after Tour de France win
Thomas stresses his own love for the race. “I’m a huge fan of the Tour and, wearing the yellow jersey, I didn’t want to get giddy. I thought: ‘Keep calm and it will come. Then you can let go.’ After the time trial. I was crying on TV and I can’t believe I did that. It might look all robotic and the words people use for Sky. But it was hard and Bennati gave me the biggest compliment. In the peloton, I think everyone respects us. But the media and some fans don’t like the dominance.”
He has since soaked up the magnitude of winning the Tour by almost two minutes. “Dave was trying to get me to stay focused and saying: ‘Enjoy it when you’re 40.’ But you’ve got to enjoy it in the moment. It won’t be the same when I’m 40. Enjoy it when it’s fresh.”
Thomas revels in the fact that Arsène Wenger phoned him, an Arsenal fan, to pass on his congratulations and Thierry Henry sent a video message. “Even now, I’m still a fan. When I met Messi at the first Champions League game after the Tour …”
His eyes widen at the memory. Had Messi also been charting his progress up Alpe d’Huez? Thomas laughs: “No, but he’s got a bike from us. A mechanic who used to work at Sky now lives in Barcelona. I said: ‘Any chance you could hook me up with tickets?’ Next thing you know we’re in the presidential suite, having cava and jamon before Barcelona-PSV. It was weird. And then meeting Messi in the underground car park afterwards was surreal. We were meeting so I could get a jersey signed by him. Barcelona also gave me a jersey.”
Geraint Thomas attends the presentation of the Tour de France 2019 route. Photograph: Yoan Valat/EPA
Did they talk for long? “Not really because I didn’t want him running around after me. But he was great and you could sense he was happy to do it. There was mutual respect. I saw [Luis] Suárez as well and he was very nice. They invited us back for el clásico [last] Sunday, but I couldn’t make it, which was a real pain.”
He is based in Monaco, near Froome, and as much as he loves being home it has become impossible to live normally in Cardiff. “It’s mental. You walk to the Co-op to get some milk and 75% of people congratulate you. It’s amazing. But at the same time, if you just want milk it can be intense. It’s nice to go in, feel the love, and get back to Monaco. The team have a base and 10 of us are in the area. You’ve got the hills, the weather. I wouldn’t have won the Tour if I hadn’t moved there. In Monaco you just knuckle down and train.”
Thomas looks up and smiles – but his determination is clear. “It’s nearly time to get ready for next year.”
© 2018 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.
Geraint Thomas: ‘Ideally, Froome would ride for me but that’s not possible’
The Tour de France winner on overcoming frustration with Team Sky, meeting Lionel Messi and why he cannot wait for next year.
Tue 30 Oct 2018 12.09 GMTLast modified on Tue 30 Oct 2018 19.42 GMT
Geraint Thomas has already told me about the night he and Lionel Messi met in an underground car park and how it feels to have won the Tour de France. He has considered public suspicion of Team Sky and explained his long battle to be accepted as their leading rider in this year’s race ahead of Chris Froome. Thomas pauses briefly now and, stepping away from the whirlwind of the last four months, looks ahead.
“I’d love to win it again,” he says. “Each year’s different but I still feel I’m improving even though I’m 32. I still have the motivation and commitment where I think Brad Wiggins, once he’d won it [in 2012], didn’t have 100% motivation. I’ve still got the appetite. I enjoyed the whole race – not just the end.”
Tour de France 2019 plans show organisers still hope to curb Team Sky | William Fotheringham
Yet Thomas concedes that Sky angered him on numerous occasions. His new book captures the Tour’s intensity but it is especially interesting when he reveals his frustration as he believed Sky favoured Froome even when Thomas had established a significant lead. But Thomas is amiable and balanced. He points out that Froome has won six grand tours and they are friends. The last pages of Thomas’s book are given over to Froome, who stresses their long relationship as teammates and how “despite my own regrets … it was a pleasure watching G win”.
There was less harmony on other key days. Thomas recalls how, before the team time trial, he was told he would be left by the other riders if he endured a puncture or a crash. Only Froome, trailing Thomas by 52 seconds after two stages, would be protected. Thomas “sat there and stewed” before saying: “That’s a bit shit. Fucking hell, guys, could you really not wait for me?”
He nods. “I was frustrated because I thought I was also a protected rider. But it’s not a decision they took lightly. They would have thought about it and debated it. I said my bit, and they said: ‘No.’ So you have to accept it. The likelihood [of a puncture] is really slim but at the time I thought it’s a shit situation. Yeah, it dragged me down a bit, but you let it go.”
After stage nine, a brutal day on the cobbles to Roubaix, Thomas had moved up to second, more than a minute ahead of Froome, but he was reminded of his less exalted position within Sky. “It was really hot in the hotel but when they put the air-con units on for all eight riders the electricity tripped. So they said: ‘Only one person can have it – Froomey.’”
Sign up to The Recap, our weekly email of editors’ picks.
Thomas wheeled an air-con unit back into his room. He “whacked it on” and “we were fortunate it didn’t trip out”. On two later occasions Froome told the team he planned to attack a stage even though there was a danger he and Thomas could lose time as a consequence. “I guess that’s a good example of not racing against each other because he told me openly he was going to do it. If he’d been made to ride for me, people could now say: ‘Froomey could have attacked that day. Maybe he could have won.’ But it shows I was stronger. It worked out well in the end.
Geraint Thomas (left) clinks champagne glasses with Chris Froome as he approaches the finish of this year’s Tour de France. Photograph: Marco Bertorello/AFP/Getty Images
“The biggest thing with Froomey was that it was never awkward. He would have been gutted because he wanted to win a fifth Tour and three grand tours on the trot. But when he congratulated me he seemed genuine, and since the Tour we’ve had a couple of nights out.”
From Wales to the Champs-Élysées: the selfless rise of Geraint Thomas | William Fotheringham
Froome is seriously competitive and he will be driven to win the Tour next year. How will he and Thomas reconcile their rival ambitions? “The team obviously know I can do it now. So I think we’ll be on a level playing field. I’m confident that, as long as we’re honest and open, we can both go for it. I’d happily help Froomey if he got through the first block of mountains and he’s strongest. I wouldn’t ride against him to try to win then.”
Froome will ride for Sky until 2020 while Thomas is under contract a year longer. It will be fascinating to watch the jostling for supremacy – but surely it presents a massive headache inside the team? “It adds another dimension. But I stayed because I feel I’m going to be the best I can be here. Going to another team is a gamble. I’ve only got another three big years left so I don’t want to risk it. Obviously, in an ideal world, Froomey would just be riding for me. But I know that’s not possible.”
Will he and Froome both take a concerted crack at the 2019 Tour? “I’m not 100% sure yet. I want to look at the route and go from there. But being the defending champ I won’t go at anything less than 100%. At the same time, the Giro [d’Italia] really excites me. It feels like unfinished business.”
Is it realistic for Thomas to be competitive in both the Giro and the Tour? “Before this year I would have said no. Froomey’s done it in previous years and I thought: ‘Wow, he’s special.’ But look at Tom Dumoulin [winning the Giro in 2017 and finishing second behind Froome this year and second in the Tour soon after]. Maybe it’s possible.”
In the peloton, I think everyone respects us. But the media and some fans don’t like the dominance
Thomas understandably does not criticise his boss Dave Brailsford, whose credibility was shredded by a parliamentary select committee concluding that Team Sky cynically abused the anti-doping system through therapeutic use exemption forms in 2012. The Welsh cyclist has said previously he believes TUEs [approval to use a prescibed prohibited substance for a medical condition – therapeutic use exemption] should be eradicated and he shakes his head when asked if he knew Froome had been found to have almost twice the allowed dose of salbutamol, his asthma medication, while winning the Vuelta a España in September 2017?
“I only heard when it came out in the papers in December. But I backed Froomey 100% because he was being tested every day in the leader’s jersey. It would be the most stupid thing to take too much. He wouldn’t do that. Obviously when you just read the headline, it looks bad. That’s why I felt really bad for him. But luckily they cleared his name.”
Thomas must have felt the antipathy towards Sky from some cycling crowds? “It’s not the same for the [Critérium du] Dauphiné [which Thomas won in June] or Paris–Nice. I don’t recall booing there. It’s only in the Tour. People were booing us but it got almost pantomime. If you go watch, you have to boo Sky. Obviously there’s lots of hatred, but 50% was pantomime. In the first week you’re mindful of it on easier days. Whereas in the mountains you are a lot more focused, and it’s background noise.”
Geraint Thomas: Tour de France support has outshone negativity – video
The way in which he surpassed Froome, as well as his emotional reaction when winning, touched some riders in the peloton. Daniele Bennati, the experienced Italian rider from Movistar who was part of Mario Cipollini’s lead-out train in a different era, drew alongside Thomas as they completed the processional ride into Paris. “It’s really good to see you win,” Bennati said. “It gives me goosebumps.”
Cardiff praises local boy Geraint Thomas after Tour de France win
Thomas stresses his own love for the race. “I’m a huge fan of the Tour and, wearing the yellow jersey, I didn’t want to get giddy. I thought: ‘Keep calm and it will come. Then you can let go.’ After the time trial. I was crying on TV and I can’t believe I did that. It might look all robotic and the words people use for Sky. But it was hard and Bennati gave me the biggest compliment. In the peloton, I think everyone respects us. But the media and some fans don’t like the dominance.”
He has since soaked up the magnitude of winning the Tour by almost two minutes. “Dave was trying to get me to stay focused and saying: ‘Enjoy it when you’re 40.’ But you’ve got to enjoy it in the moment. It won’t be the same when I’m 40. Enjoy it when it’s fresh.”
Thomas revels in the fact that Arsène Wenger phoned him, an Arsenal fan, to pass on his congratulations and Thierry Henry sent a video message. “Even now, I’m still a fan. When I met Messi at the first Champions League game after the Tour …”
His eyes widen at the memory. Had Messi also been charting his progress up Alpe d’Huez? Thomas laughs: “No, but he’s got a bike from us. A mechanic who used to work at Sky now lives in Barcelona. I said: ‘Any chance you could hook me up with tickets?’ Next thing you know we’re in the presidential suite, having cava and jamon before Barcelona-PSV. It was weird. And then meeting Messi in the underground car park afterwards was surreal. We were meeting so I could get a jersey signed by him. Barcelona also gave me a jersey.”
Geraint Thomas attends the presentation of the Tour de France 2019 route. Photograph: Yoan Valat/EPA
Did they talk for long? “Not really because I didn’t want him running around after me. But he was great and you could sense he was happy to do it. There was mutual respect. I saw [Luis] Suárez as well and he was very nice. They invited us back for el clásico [last] Sunday, but I couldn’t make it, which was a real pain.”
He is based in Monaco, near Froome, and as much as he loves being home it has become impossible to live normally in Cardiff. “It’s mental. You walk to the Co-op to get some milk and 75% of people congratulate you. It’s amazing. But at the same time, if you just want milk it can be intense. It’s nice to go in, feel the love, and get back to Monaco. The team have a base and 10 of us are in the area. You’ve got the hills, the weather. I wouldn’t have won the Tour if I hadn’t moved there. In Monaco you just knuckle down and train.”
Thomas looks up and smiles – but his determination is clear. “It’s nearly time to get ready for next year.”
© 2018 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.
We thought that we had the answers
It was the questions we had wrong
U2-11 O'Clock Tick Tock
It was the questions we had wrong
U2-11 O'Clock Tick Tock